Since about April 20, 2008 there have been
 VISITORS WHO PERHAPS FEEL THEY TOO HAVE BEEN

RIPPEDOFFBYINTUIT

About Me

5/2/08 (update 6/16/08): I can see I have had a few visitors, but no emails :-(, licensed@rippedoffbyintuit.com, I promise to post them if they  pertain, do not contain any improper/foul language, and they appear to be truthful. If you can send proof of whatever your complaint is, all the better! Please be reminded of my disclaimer though.

7/15/08 - one email, first one....

5/15/08-I found an interesting law firm, consider submitting to them!:

http://millslawfirm.com/

5/17/08: An attorney within the firm got back to me, they are not interested in handling such a case. I appreciate that they replied at all.

OTHER PERCEIVED INTERESTING LINKS TO COMPLAINTS ABOUT INTUIT OR ITS PRODUCTS OR ITS REPRESENTATIVES

Some may be removed if permission is not given to remain.

RIPPED OFF BY INTUIT -

GIVE US A BREAK, LEAVE OUR BLOOD ALONE

Taken to the cleaners one more time!

I mainly put this site up due to what I construe to be a misrepresentation of what we are "buying" from Intuit. Now, please do not get me wrong, INTUIT makes good software and provides neat services, all of which they make a lot of money from, but I do believe they use advertising that is misleading. Perhaps all software companies do, I have no idea.

Take for example when you look at any of their online advertisements, even the URL implies purchasing something beyond a license to use. I get Google Ads and naturally they advertise Intuit stuff.... LOL, but you can go to the bottom and if they are being advertised at this time check one out. There are obviously many other links, I picked the very first one:

http://quickbooksenterprise.intuit.com/forms/purchase.jhtml -  

but nowhere readily apparent does it tell you that you are only purchasing a license that allows you to use a copy of the software and that your license may not be transferred except under very narrow guidelines. The Intuit Licensing Group likes to use an example of a driver's License. I think if they want to use that they should allow us to buy a license and then be allowed to "drive" any and all future versions of Quickbooks, just like a driver's license does with cars. We can even drive someone else's car!. I digress. Oh wait, this is my site, I can do that!!

5/1/08 I just had an email ad sent to me - INTUIT ad , same thing, no hint of a non-transferrable license only.

http://help.quicken.com/support/eula/sla_qw2005/index.shtml

http://quickbooks.intuit.com/qb/common/legal/legal.jhtml#license

BTW I have posted an almost complete email correspondence at the end of my rambling dialogue, a correspondence with their licensing department. The person or group seemed a little arrogant and communicated for a rather short period. Look for the one where Mr. Brad Smith wants us all to be compliant.

If you have an interesting story about INTUIT licensing, let me know and if I even get time to read it, I may post it on here, so you give up your rights to not having it posted. I will post it as sent, so take out what you do not want here.

DISCLAIMER: (See the legal page as well)

I do not guarantee the accuracy of anything I post that has been sent in by others. If INTUIT or any of its subsidiaries or anyone one else for that matter disagrees with the information, let me know and if I even get time to read it, I may post it on here, so you give up your rights to not having it posted. I will post it as sent, so take out what you do not want here. (This is deliberately like what I wrote above).

4/21/08 - UPDATE: At my discretion, I will remove any words I deem inappropriate.

END DISCLAIMER

Back to the issue at hand.

Oh, and for a little legal thing: I do not allow Intuit or any of its subsidiaries, or anyone else for that matter to divulge the email address(es) I used in my correspondence(s) with Intuit or any of its subsidiaries, or anyone else for that matter.

My spelling is horrendous, I cannot touch-type (I do touch the keys, of course, but I must look at them), and I rarely spell check. I left all of the wrong stuff in here. I did put little comments here and there that were not in the original emails, these comments are sorta pinkish.

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FIRST EMAIL TO ME 4/11/08:

Dear XXXX XXXX Thank you for your transfer of ownership application. Your reference number is 4015. Please reference this number in any communication regarding this situation You will be informed via email within 24-48 business hours regarding the status of your application. If your request is approved there will be a $25.00 processing fee (plus applicable sales tax). Once approved, a representative will contact you regarding any additional information and/or documentation. If you have additional questions or concerns please contact us at transfer_license@intuit.com and reference request number 4015. Thank you

Somehow I missed their denial and it started an interesting exchange:

FIRST EMAIL TO THEM 4/17/08

From: xxxx.xxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:24 PM
To: Transfer License
Subject: WHEN IS MY CONTACT GOING TO TAKE PLACE???

 I filled out the online form LAST WEEK:

·         http://support.quickbooks.intuit.com/support/transfer/transfer.aspx

and NO ONE has contacted me. Please let me know the  status of the request. Also, please confirm, if it is true, that if I buy a full version of Quickbooks that Intuit will NOT allow me transfer or sell the older version. Please comment on the concept of BUYING versus rent/lease, or buying and being allowed to do what we want with the software, other than violating copyright laws, etc.

 Not that whoever you are reading this cares one way or the other, but I definitely will NOT be upgrading or purchasing other Intuit products if I cannot even pay your $25 fee to transfer an old license to someone else, unless it is an absolute need.

As you can see, I was upset. They probably know, sorta like Microsoft, where else are you going to get comparable products?

3 - CONTINUED THEM (I am taking out all of the email headers):

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Hello ,

 Thank you for contacting us.  Here is the verbiage from Intuit's End User License Agreement (EULA).  It is also available at www.quickbooks.com/transfer.   The Product Licensing Group basis its' decisions on Transfer of Ownership with the restrictions set forth within the EULA. You request has been denied. We did send an email stating so April 13^th.

 Customer's who purchase a new unregistered version (one minute we are purchasing a license, the next a "version") from an authorized seller of QuickBooks do have a 60 day money back guarantee.  Once QuickBooks is installed, the user accepts the terms of the EULA, registers it ("it" or our license?), the below EULA terms and conditions become active.

 I do understand that many people accept the terms of a software licensing agreement without reading them (this is another great statement, an Intuit rep acknowledging most of us do not read these, so they bury it there). 

EXAMPLE CITED NEAR THE BEGINNING OF THE SITE:

A good example (a little self assuming) is that each person who drives the family car is required to have a license to drive it.  

You wouldn’t give your driver’s license to another person to drive a car (but I can give them or sell them my car and their little $15.00 license gives them the right to drive it). 

Most Software works that same way.  Like a driver's license it cannot be sold or given away.  When you purchase QuickBooks it is still owned by Intuit (what on earth relative to a driver's license is still owned by the issuing entity?),

but you purchase a license permitting you to use it.  Each user of QuickBooks requires a unique license and if it is installed on three computers at a business, that business would need to purchase three licenses. 

 "You are not licensed or permitted under this Agreement to do any of the following:(a) modify, adapt, translate, rent or sublicense (including offering the Software to third parties on an applications service provider or time-sharing basis); (b) assign, loan, resell, transfer or distribute the Software, CDROM(s), or related materials or create derivative works based upon the Software or any part thereof; (c) network the Software, except that you may network your company data file as outlined in Section 1 (ii) above if you have purchased the multi-user license version; and (d) copy the Software in whole or part, except as expressly stated in (i), (ii), or (iii) above, or use trade secret information contained in the Software, to develop software to interface with the Software. You agree not to (and not to permit others to): (i) decompile, disassemble, or otherwise reverse engineer the Software, except as otherwise expressly permitted by applicable law; or (ii) remove, alter or obscure any confidentiality or proprietary rights notices (including copyright notices) of Intuit or its licensors on or within the Software or any copies of the Software. All license transfers are subject to written approval by Intuit and may be subject to a transfer fee determined by Intuit in its sole discretion (they led me to believe it is forced by federal law, not discretionary at all, let-alone "sole discretion"). If your company is, or substantially all of its assets are, acquired by or merged into another company or sole proprietorship, please contact Intuit at transfer_license@intuit.com regarding transferring your license to the new company."

 Thank you,

Intuit Product Licensing Group

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Thank you for the reply.

You are correct, I did not, nor do most, read all of the verbiage we agree to on install, I still be working on getting g everything installed. (I meant to say "I would still be working on getting everything installed) *sigh*

I did not see any email on the 13^th, but my email is not the most trustworthy, so I have no doubts about it being sent.

The illustration of the car is not exactly appropriate, in that it is one car that any person with a license or a permit may legally use if the person paying for the car authorizes such usage. The dealership does not retain ownership of the car, unless it is a rental or leased vehicle, which may under certain circumstances still be used by others. The driver’s license is something any person may attain via a test and a small fee paid to a different agency, one completely detached from the manufacture and sale of the vehicle in question. Their sole function is to transfer the title to the new owner (of course, for a fee), as often as it is sold. The owner may sell the car to anyone whom s/he chooses and the registration of the vehicle WILL be transferred to the new owner, even if they DO NOT have a license. You have made me buy a car that immediately after getting a new car, I must throw the old, but functional, old car away.

When I purchase Quickbooks, Intuit still owns it? Then I have not purchased it, I have leased or rented it but I do believe all ads state purchase or buy, interesting. I am a little too busy to pursue this at present, but needless to say, this makes no sense to me except to force the rental of brand new software each time. In the next few days, please check out www.rippedoffbyintuit.com and www.ihateit.com . As soon as I get a chance I will be setting them up with a copy of the EULA agreement a few of us have overlooked, as well as this email.

I will be doing all I can to curtail my use of your products in the future. No more purchasing the newest release, no more using the online quarterly tax, no gravitating to Quickbooks payroll, different tax software, etc.

NOTE: Somewhere I am missing an email or two, or more.

I purchased the sites. I will have at least one page up by the weekend. I am also strongly considering a small claim, but hopefully I will calm down and let it go……I am sure Brad Smith is proud of the way Intuit now squeezes us all for money, beyond what may be construed as fair and reasonable. Must be affiliated with Shell.

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Brad Smith wants people compliant, and buying someone else’s soft ware is not compliance. We sell licenses to use our software, intuit owns the rights to the software and licensing is like me trying to sell you my drivers license. We are not doing this just to be mean or make more money; we are trying to be compliant with the federal copyright law we are bound by it. Most software companies have this same license agreement. Maybe you should check out the license agreements on other software you are licensed to use.  You can do what ever you want as far as taking this to small claims,  (emphasis is mine) but once a lawyer reads the license agreement and maybe you should get one to explain to you what it means (implying I cannot understand, more perceived arrogance), we have tried to make ours as simple as possible to read. I am sorry that you do not like our process or the federal copyright law, most people in your position don't. However My (not "our" or "Intuit's" or "Brad's", I wonder who is replying to me?) dept is here to make sure those that qualify can transfer their license and unfortunately your case does not warrant a transfer.

Intuit Licensing Group

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May I please be provided with, or pointed to where I may read, the federal copyright law disallowing a person from pursuing a transfer except only under the circumstances outlined in INTUIT’s EULA? If it is a federal law, than why do only “Most software companies have this same license agreement”?  If a software company does not have a EULA like INTUIT’s, are they violating federal law?

The pursuit in small claims is merely a consideration to encourage INTUIT to change their advertisement wording, as well as the verbiage you wrote below: “When you purchase QuickBooks it is still owned by Intuit”. We cannot “PURCHASE” something and it still be owned by someone else. Perhaps you should consult a dictionary for clarification on the wording and then reconsider what I am complaining about. Do you not agree the wording should be “When you purchase a license for QUICKBOOKS, we loan you our software”?. Here is a sample add from INTUIT:

http://quickbooksenterprise.intuit.com/forms/purchase.html

It is not an  up-front add to purchase a license, therefore it  is misleading. The disclaimer as to what we are “purchasing” should not be buried in a EULA agreement in that ITUIT recognizes most people do not read the fine print “I do understand that many people accept the terms of a software licensing agreement without reading them”. 

Furthermore, this particular wording from you, or whomever, seems somewhat condescending “You can do what ever you want as far as taking this to small claims…” in that it stands to reason all human beings may do whatever they want, though it may not necessarily accomplish what is wanted by the person making such a choice.

I do not wish to negate your efforts to clarify and help me understand Intuit’s position on this matter. Sadly, I do believe someone higher up will mandate that you cease communication, in that their concern is most likely not that “Brad Smith wants people compliant”,  but that INTUIT’s assets are protected and grow..

I will let you know when the two sites are up and running.

Thank you for your help.

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Sure here is the link,

http://quickbooks.intuit.com/qb/common/legal/legal.jhtml#license

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This appears to be Intuit’s stuff, do you have a federal link where I may read the Federal wording claimed to be the driving force behind the written agreement. I see that it references “applicable federal law” several times, but does not provide the law unto itself, nor does it appear to specifically address personal transfers within the US. I did find, under Software License Agreement for QuickBooks® Software:

16. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that this software is subject to the U.S. Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR, Chapter VII) and that you will comply with these regulations. You will not export or re-export this product, directly or indirectly, to: (1) any countries that are subject to US export restrictions; (2) any end user who has been prohibited from participating in US export transactions by any federal agency of the US government; or (3) any end user who you know or have reason to know will utilize them in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. You further acknowledge that this product may include technical data subject to export and re-export restrictions imposed by US law.

17. U.S. GOVERNMENT. The Software is a "commercial item," as that term is defined at 48 C.F.R. 2.101 (OCT 1995), consisting of "commercial computer software" and "commercial computer software documentation," as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. 12.212 (SEPT 1995). Consistent with 48 C.F.R. 12.212 and 48 C.F.R. 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4 (JUNE 1995), all U.S. Government End Users acquire the Software with only those rights set forth herein.

But these laws appear to be more associated with export and definitions, not transfers within the US between two US citizens. So, again, please provide the Federal Government Law mandating the disallowance of transfer except under what appears to be INTUIT guidelines only.

Thank you in advance,

9- CONTINUED THEM: Back to TOP

You can do a Google search for federal copyright law. It will bring up the federal org. involved in the law.

Intuit Licensing Group

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OK, and where is the specific law you have referenced? Of course I can do a Google search and come up with the gazillion laws they promulgate annually. Are you deliberately not providing me the specific information requested because it does not exist?

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By the way, www.rippedofbyintuit.com has a single but rather disorganized page. Next will be www.ihateit.com .

12 - CONTINUED ME 4/22/08

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Hi,

I am still waiting on the specific Federal law you referenced. Also, I gave more thought to the Driver’s License thing. A driver’s license is based on age, passing a test, and paying a fee. It also contains information that others could use to the original person’s detriment. Please  tell me how this correlates to what you are REALLY selling to us?

And yes, the website shows a lack of any response from you. I am also taking this into the community forums, as time permits.

Thank you for your time,

xxxx

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This is it to date (4/22/08). I will continue posting emails and/or links I have found on other sites as such are found and as time allows. I doubt I will hear from their condescending License team anymore.